HPDEs & track experience vs. sriving schools

[glenthompson]

A question for wheel to wheel racers (and workers) - Do you think that good performance at HPDEs (advanced level) or time trial experience is adequate to replace one of the driver schools required for a competition license? Have you raced with people with this type experience? Did they handle things any better than those that have only had a couple of driver schools?

This is one of the agenda items at Jekyll. Any thoughts and comments would be appreciated.

[tac911t]

HPDE, time trials, and other single car participation events does not prepare one for racing traffic, especially a race start (which I find to be the most exciting and fun part of the race weekend). During practice and qualifying there are cars faster and slower than you everywhere on the track. During the start, cars are next to each other, and everyone is looking for a good position for the first turn and first lap. The knowledge gained from attending a racing school provides a good and solid foundation for racing skills, and the practice on track with other novice drivers is time well spent before getting on the track with experienced drivers. With HPDE type events, you typically worry about yourself (your driving skill, and your car prep). Within a race, you do have concern yourself with other drivers skill and car prep level.

When starting to race, the more time spent learning and driving behind the wheel, both during practice and in races, will make one a better (safer) driver. Just like learning to drive, this is a new experience, there is a lot happening on the track that one needs to be aware of, course conditions, flags, corner stations, etc.

Todd C.

[drum3]

Every racer must still go thru a drivers school regardless of their HPDE experience.This is the ONLY way to obtain your competitors license.I would think those that have had the experience of HPDE's,TT and track days would handle this school easier as they would already be used to the speed on track and could concentrate more on the passing and "racing" portion of the school.

[glenthompson]

There's no question that a wheel to wheel school is needed. My question is which of the following would you prefer to have on the track with you:

1. Driver with 5+ HPDEs, a TT license, multiple TT events, and one wheel to wheel school.

2. Driver with two wheel to wheel schools.

Can a lot of track experience adequately substitute for one of the two driver schools?

[Scott]

I think a driver who has done 5+ HPDE's, plus TT's, and one licensing school is going to be safer on track then one who only has done two licensing schools

[drum3]

The more track experience means he has or should have much better car control at those speeds,I think the car control already under his belt allows him to learn more about "racing" during the drivers school which makes him safer in the long run.

[RexRacer]

IMO - HPDE/TT expereince should be taken into consideration for a waiver of one school. However, that should be limited to "advanced" group runners, which means more than 5 weekends in most cases. It would be more like 10 typically. Once a driver makes it to advanced status they have demonstrated mastery of the following (but not limited to) Advanced car control, situational awareness and flag recognition, traffic management, driving off line, threshold braking, driving with cars of differing speeds, etc. All of these are important in the W2W side of things, and don't necessarily get learned/mastered after 2 race schools.

With some HPDE groups, the advanced group gets to pass anywhere with a point by. Often, this is into a turn in the braking zone or requires that the driver be off line for a series of turns to complete the pass. Again, valuable experience when stepping over the the W2W world.

What HPDE can't teach is the intensity of the start and some of the fast paced action during the race. But as mentioned already, they will have a big leg up on the rest of what they need to learn. I feel that as long as they perform up to par in the first comp school, then certainly the HPDE experience should be considered as a waiver for the second school.

[aged racer]

I'm an old school guy. I think absent a hell of a lot of other experience, it's best not to skip the wheel to wheel experience that only a good SCCA school supplies. Only exception might be something like the Double school weekend the SE does at Roebling. Even there, it's three straight days of wheel to wheel on track.

If you're smart, you'll do a bunch of HPDE's and auto-x's before SCCA, because they ain't gon teach you how to drive. (Ask me how I know...)

[914geezer]

For an even older opinion. I agree with Steve that you need to learn how to drive first via DE's, etc. Ty (my son) and I had several years of DE's before doing the Bertil Roos school at Pocono to get our IMSA licenses back it '85. I think SCCA still allows a "pro" school in lieu of one school.
Enough DE days may be OK too?

I think PCA Club Racing requires at least 10 days of DE and the chief instructors OK to get a provisional license. They have practice starts and 5 lap fun races at the begining of most race weekends. After the rookie completes 2 or 3 races with a provisional without problems they get a full license.

One caution on too many DE days is one may get "too courteous" for a proper degree of agressiveness for racing.